Podcast Marketing

The old peanut butter & jelly

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A week ago, a dude wrote me with a proposition:

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Proposition for you: let me in on your Simple Money Emails course and I’ll interview you on my channel, promote your stuff in the description of the video, and anything else.

I heard you in an interview, good stuff, authentic…most other marketers in interviews put me to shleep.

Anyhow, if you’re interested, great. If not, no probs mate.

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… and below that, the dude included a link to his YouTube channel.

Now here’s a fact:

Last month, I got paid good money to come and talk about email marketing inside a small and closed-door coaching community. This involved preparing a bit of a presentation, and critiquing some copy, and a level of transparency regarding how-to that I don’t promise in podcast interviews.

But even when I’m not getting paid to come and speak in front of a group, I don’t pay for the same privilege.

The way I look at it, a podcast or other kind of interview is already a kind of barter:

The host has the audience/platform… I bring the interesting content for that audience.

It’s like peanut butter & jelly. Each has limited dietary uses on its own… but put them together, and you’ve got a culinary marvel you can live on for the rest of your life.

The point I’m trying to make is not that you should be a hard-nosed “Never pay!” negotiator. There are plenty of good occasions to pay for self-promotion. (Last year I paid Daniel Throssell $1k to run 50 words of copy in his newsletter, offering his audience a bunch of valuable stuff for free.)

My point is simply that if you have or can provide good content, there are people who have an audience and who could use good content.

And vicey versy. If you have a platform and distribution, there are people who would love to come and sell for you, present for you, make their good offers available for you.

The old peanut butter & jelly.

And speaking of:

If you run a private community… mastermind… coaching group… podcast… YouTube channel… small-town newspaper… community bulletin board at the local dog park… and you need someone to talk interesting, and to talk email marketing, then reach out to me. Maybe we can barter in a way that makes us both better off.

High-quality content is a bad investment for most businesses

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In a recent newsletter, media watcher Simon Owens wrote that high-end, narrative podcasts are a bad investment for most businesses. Cheap, conversational podcasts are a much smarter bet. This made my long and I believe quite attractive ears perk up.

Why is producing high-production-value, valuable content such a bad idea? Simon shares his own experience:

But here we are just two years later, and most of the narrative shows are gone from my own podcast feed. The transition occurred gradually. I’d find myself looking forward to new episodes of the conversational podcasts, whereas listening to the scripted ones just felt like homework. My mind would drift during crucial plot points, which meant skipping back several minutes so I could regain my narrative foothold. In many cases, the narrative series I listened to died off after a single season, and I just didn’t have the energy to try out new ones. Today, only four out of the 23 shows I regularly listen to hinge on a storytelling structure.

Simon says, of course there is still some space for fancy narrative podcasts like Serial, and there will always be some audience. But for most businesses, investing in this kind of content is a losing game.

Like I said, my ears were very perky after reading this.

“What if it’s not just podcasts?” I said to myself. The question is not about complex storytelling versus unscripted conversations. The question is whether your content feels like homework or not.

Or maybe the question is really this:

Is the high production value you put into your content helping your case — or actually hurting it? This might be something to think about if you have a podcast, or a YouTube channel, or — an email newsletter.

But here’s something else to think about:

People don’t just sign up to conversational podcasts. Not just like that. Nobody sets out looking for a random and unknown person to listen to.

No, people initially start listening to conversational podcast because the podcast is recommended by somebody… or because a snippet of it is surprising or fun… or, most likely, because the podcaster has some kind of standing, authority, or status.

Which brings me to my Most Valuable Email training.

It’s about an email copywriting trick. This trick produces surprising content. Content which gets recommended and shared by readers to other potential readers. And which builds up your perceived standing, authority, and status, by you doing nothing more than writing valuable emails regularly… which don’t feel like homework to read.

In case you have an email newsletter around marketing or copywriting, or want to start one, this Most Valuable Email training might be a good investment. To find out more about it:

https://bejakovic.com/mve/

My takeaways from yesterday’s informal survey now that I’m out from under a mountain of virtual mail

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I’m way behind schedule today because I spent much of the day buried under a virtual mountain of virtual mail. And each time I clawed my way to the surface, gasped for air, and pulled out a stray bit of virtual paper from my throat, another batch of virtual messages landed on top of my head and buried me again.

The context:

Yesterday, I asked my list what the most recent podcast they listened to is. I also offered a little bribe to get people to respond.

An arenaful of people took me up on my offer and wrote in with their most recent listened-to podcast. As a result, I found out some interesting things about my readers:

1. They listen to more business-related podcasts than purely fun or general-interest podcasts. It was about a 60-40 split.

2. The podcasts that came rolling in were extremely diverse. In spite of all the responses I got, there were very few duplicates.

3. The one marketing podcast that did pop up multiple times was the Chris Haddad Show, in particular the episode with David Deutsch.

4. The general interest/purely fun category was broken up into three main groups: 1) self improvement (by far biggest), 2) comedy (second biggest but relatively small), and 3) truly off the wall stuff. A few examples of the last category:

“I’ll be honest — it was Words In The Air, a spoken-word poetry podcast that’s completely useless to you”

“Something to Wrestle with by Conrad Thompson and Bruce Prichard. It’s an insiders view of the WWE from the days of Hulk Hogan, through Stone Cold, up to today.”

“Recently, while on a five hour drive… My wife made me listen to this podcast where women tell their birthing stories. It was horrible.”

There are two takeaways I can make from this. Maybe they will be useful to you also:

The first is that if you keep writing daily emails long enough, then people on your list begin to be a composite of you and your interests.

After all, points 1,2, and 4 above describe me and interests pretty well (except for the birthing thing).

​​As for #3, I’ve listened to an episode of Chris Haddad’s podcast once, though that was the episode in which my name and my 10 Commandments book were mentioned.

My second takeaway is that Ben Settle might be right.

Ben said somewhere, probably in one of his emails, that he never surveys his list about what products to create next. He doesn’t ask people or about their tastes either. Or their preferences.

​​The only worthwhile survey question, says Ben, is what people bought last.

That was why yesterday I asked for just one podcast, and the most recent one you listened to. I believe this produced a much more honest and insightful survey than had I asked, “What are some of your favorite podcasts?”

Anyways, I now have a lot of good info for when I do decide to make a podcast push.

That won’t be right away. I still want to put out some new offers first.

I also plan to convert some of the offers I’ve launched already into offers I can promote all the time.

All of which means, I might not be offering my Email Marketing Audit much longer.

If you have your own email list, and it’s making you some money, then my quick and easy audit could be worth a lot more to you than I charge for it.

You can find out more about it at the link below. And if you are curious about it, then I can repeat yesterday’s message:

The perfect moment is now. The moment never was this good. It might never be this good again. So to get started while this window of opportunity is open:

https://bejakovic.com/audit

The very first ad to do sex in advertising

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Albert Lasker, known as “the father of modern advertising,” called it one of the greatest and most important ads ever.

Partly, because it looked and sounded classy.

Partly, because it drove up sales.

But most of all, because it was the first ad to feature sex appeal.

I’m talking about the Woodbury’s Soap ad, which you can find below, if you are the curious type.

For me, it’s hard to get aroused by the sex in this ad. Yes, because I grew up with the Internet. But also, because the sex appeal in this ad was mainly targeted at women, and women and I have differing tastes.

Still, I get aroused by this ad for another reason:

The Woodbury’s ad is an example of a class of ads from the early 20th century, which were not really direct response ads the way we know them today… but which still featured a direct response offer.

For example, the Woodbury’s ad features an offer to write in and get a print of the beautiful painting in the ad, without the company logo or the ad copy. Oh, and you get a sample of the soap too, all for just 10¢ worth of coins or stamps.

The thing that’s interesting is that making this sale isn’t really the point of the ad. After all, this ad continued to run for many years after, without the direct response offer.

My guess is that the direct response mechanism initially served to tell J. Walter Thompson, the marketing agency behind this ad, how effective this ad was in terms of capturing readership, interest, and brand recognition.

Which I think is something you can use today as well.

As I’ve written before, we are entering an age where brand advertising and direct marketing blend. Not just for soap companies. For your own personal brand as well.

And if you do some brand awareness work… whether that’s a podcast appearance… or a livestream… or even a daily email in which you don’t have a product to sell…

It can make sense to put in an offer. Not the real thing you’re selling. Something else.

It can be free. It can also be quick and easy, without any back-end setup. And yet, it can help you gauge how effective your spiel was… and how valuable the channel in which you delivered it.

For example:

If you write me an email, I will direct you to a cool resource for learning more about classic ads like the Woodbury’s ad. These ads all hold great ideas that you can apply to your marketing today. And you can get them in a resource that’s available for free, online — and that I’ve never heard anybody talk about.

Like I said, just write me an email, and I’ll tell you what this resource is.

Oh, and here’s a sample of the Woodbury’s ad, all for just 0¢ worth of coins or stamps:

How to get free consulting from high-paid experts

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I was just listening to January’s issue of Steal Our Winners, where Rich Schefren somehow gets top marketers to share what’s working for them right now.

So today I listened to a guy named Seth Greene, who is new to me but apparently has deep roots in the Internet marketing community.

Seth made a throwaway comment that I thought was very valuable. And since it was a throwaway comment, and not the main topic of the presentation Seth was making, I think it’s ok to share here.

In a nutshell, Seth revealed how he gets free consulting from high-paid experts.

High-paid? Like who?

Like Russell Brunson, the face and CEO of ClickFunnels. Russell charges $10,000 for lunch (“to pick his brain,” according to his site) and $1M if you’d like him to get up out of his La-Z-Boy and build a funnel for you.

Those rates might sound outrageous, but they make sense. Because Russell’s ClickFunnels did $100M+ in 2020, and is valued at over $1B. In other words, this guy’s time and expertise is valuable.

And yet, Seth got two separate consulting sessions with Russell for free. Seth got to ask all sorts of questions that were relevant to his own success… and had Russell thinking hard to come up with the best and most valuable answers.

And maybe I didn’t mention this enough, but this consulting was all free. So how did Seth do it?

Easy. He invited Russell onto his podcast.

This is a new spin on the value of a podcast I had never thought about. Maybe it’s new to you too, and maybe it’s something you can use starting today.

“Yeah right,” you might say. “Even if I had a podcast, which I don’t because who would listen to me, how would I possibly get Russell Brunson on my show?”

Well, that’s a part (just one part) of what Seth shared in his Steal Our Winners segment, which is titled, “How To Recruit A Cult Of 50 Evangelists To Promote Your Brand For Free.”

Make no mistake. Seth’s system will take work. And it will take time. But it’s doable for anybody, even if you don’t have authority, charisma, or a deep budget.

And I think that if you head over to Steal Our Winners now and sign up, you can still get the January issue, and Seth’s presentation inside it. In case you’re interested, here’s the link:

https://bejakovic.com/sow

Doing a bit of selling to somebody else’s posse

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There’s a scene I love in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid:

The local marshal is trying to start a posse. The crowd seems undecided and the marshal’s getting really worked up.

Finally, a man from the crowd stands next to the marshal. Is the tide finally turning in the marshal’s favor?

“Here’s what I say,” says the other man. “I say, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, friends and enemies, meet the future!”

It turns out this guy is a salesman — promoting this shiny new invention called a bicycle.

“What in the hell do you think you’re doing?” says the bewildered marshal.

The bicycle salesman shrugs. “You got the crowd together, so I thought I’d do a bit of selling.”

Well, what worked in the Wild West works still. If you want to do some easy selling, find somebody who has already gathered a crowd.

The good news is, there’s this shiny new invention called a podcast. Usually it’s got a host, who’s gone to a great deal of trouble to assemble his own posse. Strange enough, but a lot of these podcast hosts will let you come on their show… talk yourself silly… and do a bit of selling.

Now odds are, you’ve known all about this for a long time. So why haven’t you done anything about it? Perhaps, you didn’t have a list of podcasts that are a good fit for what you’re selling.

That’s what I want to share with you today. It’s a search engine, specifically for podcasts topics, hosts, and guests.

I just used it to quickly track down a list of two dozen podcasts I could go after. All I did was type in the names of some people in the industry where I sell. And if you want to do the same, here’s the link where you can access this posse search engine:

https://www.listennotes.com/