Jim Camp

An easy guiding principle to creating vision in your prospects

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Once upon a time, somewhere in America, there lived a very successful life insurance salesman.

He couldn’t speak, and he was bound to a wheelchair.

And yet, when it came to selling life insurance, the man was tremendous.

He used a marker and a little dry-erase board to communicate. Patiently, he would write his questions on the board, and then he’d hand it over to his prospects. His most effective question, the one that flipped the switch and lit up his prospects’ brains, was:

“If we lose you, where will your family live?”

I read this story in Jim Camp’s Start with No. Camp used it to illustrate the power of painting a vision of the prospect’s pain. “No vision,” Camp used to say, “no decision.”

Of course, in written copy, it’s not always the best choice to start asking questions. The dynamic is different than when you have a real person sitting across from you. But the same principle applies.

Create vision in your prospects.

There are lots of tricks and techniques for doing it. But there’s one easy guiding principle that lords above them all:

Create a vision in yourself first.

Your prospects will pick up on it, however you choose to communicate, and they will make the decision — the one you’d like for them to make.

Who wins: aggressive or submissive copy voice

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Across the street from where I live, there’s an apartment with a nice terrace where they often shoot TV commercials for things like mayonnaise and general purpose loans.

Whenever they are getting ready to shoot one of these commercials, they send an advance man. He’s in charge of blocking off the parking up and down the street, so the TV crew trucks will have a place to park.

This pisses off the residents, who get nothing but frustration from these frequent shoots.

And so today, as I was coming out of my building, a heated argument erupted over this.

A guy with an SUV drove over the little orange cones and police tape and parked in one of the cordoned-off spots.

The TV crew guy in charge of the parking ran over yelling, “Stop! Get out of there! We’re a TV crew! I’ll call the police!”

“Call the police,” the owner of the SUV told him, “and go fuck yourself.”

They kept at it, repeating these same two lines over and over as I walked away and out of earshot.

Now, I’ve been writing about negotiation lately and this made me think of the okay/unokay advice from famed negotiation coach Jim Camp.

“Only one person can feel okay in a negotiation,” says Camp, “and it’s not you.”

That would have been good advice for the unfortunate TV crew guy. When I came home three hours later, he was still there, sitting dejectedly on the opposite corner of the street. As far away as possible from the still-parked SUV.

He had no hand. Yelling and threatening with calling the police was only counterproductive. It might have been better to try to be unokay and say something like:

“I know, man. I hate this job. I know you got no place to park and I’m sorry for putting these stupid cones to try to keep you out. The company makes me do this and it makes me sick to my stomach. I’ve got no right telling you not to park here. I’m just so stressed. When the TV crew comes later and sees your car parked here, they’re gonna nail me to the cross cuz they won’t be able to put the truck anywhere. I don’t know what I’m gonna do.”

I’m not sure the SUV driver would have bought it, but it would have been worth a shot.

But what about the SUV guy though?

Whole different story.

​​Being aggressive and inconsiderate worked for him. He got everything he wanted from this negotiation without making his adversary feel okay. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And that’s the application to copywriting.

Some copywriting gurus will advise a very aggressive and commanding tone of voice. “You’ve got my money,” they effectively say to the prospect, “now hand it over.”

Others advise being more skeptical and subtle — or even submissive. They basically offer the reader the chance to buy, rather than bullying him into buying.

So which one is better?

Well, just like in the parking situation above, it depends. Mainly on who you’re talking to, and what you’re offering them. A $27 bizopp offer, targeting frustrated retail workers, will use one level of aggressiveness. A $5400 business service targeting successful entrepreneurs will use another.

In other words, there’s no single answer. And if anybody tells you differently, it’s because they’re selling something — to only one type of market.

10 additional services copywriters can sell to their clients

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I just got my hair cut. Unfortunately, hair-cutting is all the hairdresser offered to do.

It makes me yearn for the good old days when a respectable barber would cut your hair, trim your mustache, and even pull your rotten tooth out for you.

Oh well. Too bad for hairdressers.

Copywriters can do better, though. Here are 10 additional services that I’ve used (or tried to use) to up-sell and down-sell and cross-sell clients:

#1. The Oliver Twist

This is when the client comes to you, soup bowl in hand, and says, “Please sir, I want some more.” In other words, you simply sell them the same service again. For example, last summer, I wrote one sales email for a guy with a big Clickbank product in the men’s health niche. He liked it, so he hired me to write a new such email every day.

#2. The top of the slide

This is writing copy for one part of the sales funnel, and then for an earlier part. Example: a couple of years ago I was hired to rewrite a VSL. When that was done, I kept in touch with the same client. Eventually, we agreed that I would also rewrite the emails he was using to drive traffic to the VSL.

#3. The after-party

This is just the opposite of no. 2. Example: I once had a job to write headlines for native ads. That job ended. But after a bit of back-and-forth, I was hired to also write the actual advertorials that the native ads led to.

#4. A second tunnel through the mountain

If you’ve done a good job for a client on one project, odds are good they have another very similar opportunity — another product, another funnel — which needs almost the exact treatment.

So just recently I was asked to rewrite a product page for a new supplement company. I did. the client was satisfied with the work, and I immediately got the chance to do another product page for another product in the exact same style.

#5. Oranges instead of apples

Sometimes it pays to stand up to clients. Last autumn, I was contacted by a client who wanted me to write a VSL. After a bit of talking, I told him he needs to pick a segment of the market he plans to target. And so we agreed that, instead of the VSL, I would write emails to his existing list to figure out which segment might sell the best.

#6. Outsourced kaizen

This is when you handle the optimization of the copy or of the funnel. Right now, I’m talking to a client who got in touch regarding an advertorial. So I asked him a question straight out of Jim Camp’s playbook: “Who do you have in your corner who can help you optimize this thing to ensure it performs well?” We’ll see if he has someone, or if he’s interested in having me handle this.

#7. Mouth flapping

Parris Lampropoulos, who is famous as an A-list copywriter, once said he actually makes most his money from consulting with his clients rather than the actual copywriting — in spite of the massive royalties he’s typically paid.

But you don’t need to be a marketer of Parris’s stature to get paid for consulting (aka flapping your mouth). Back in my dark and early Upwork days, I had a difficult client. However, one good thing was he would pay me simply to get on the call and brainstorm, or more often, to shoot his ideas down.

#8. The dreaded touchup

When asked to “simply fix up” existing copy, I usually run like I’m being chased by a bunch of angry bees. But I have done it in the past, and sometimes it proved to be good money for little work. For example, I once rewrote the lead (the first page and a half) of a pretty messy sales letter for a live event about investing, and I got paid what was a princely sum for me at the time.

#9. Money for nothing

This is an idea I got from Travis Sago: you take a client’s “trashcan asset,” turn it into risk-free money, and split the profits. I haven’t done this yet, but not for want of trying — I keep talking to all of my current and past clients about it.

#10. Trousers and britches

Sometimes clients need different formats and they are willing to pay you for it. Example: I once wrote a 2,000 word script for a Facebook lead-gen video. But is 2,000 words the right length? The client wasn’t sure. So I took that same script, pared it down to 600 words, gave him that as a second piece of copy, and earned a bit of extra money.

If you make a bit of an effort to suss out what your client might need, and then pick and choose from the above list, you won’t just make yourself more money.

Instead, you will also solidify your relationship with a client, help them be more successful, and profit doubly down the line. And if you want more advice on how to succeed in the business of copywriting, you might like the following:

https://bejakovic.com/upwork-book-notification-list/

The power of negative thinking

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“Just go talk to her!”

I was walking on the street a few days ago. The sun was shining, there was a cool breeze, and lots of good-looking women were out and about.

Each time one of these monsters passed by, wrapped up in her headphones, masked with her sunglasses, I would tell myself to go talk to her.

Of course, all that happened is that I tensed up.

These women on parade were too intimidating.

​​Or too busy.

​​Or too something.

In the past, I’d tried hyping myself up.

“What’s the big deal?” I would say. “She’d probably be super happy to get a compliment. And maybe you will hit it off. It could be a win-win!”

That would always get me excited. And that was all.

Because more good-looking women would pass by…

And I still wouldn’t go talk to any of them.

So a few days ago, I did the opposite. I told myself the ugly truth:

“Why not just go home? You probably won’t talk to any of these women. It’s too hard. Or maybe you’re just too weak. Or not good enough at problem solving. Whatever the reason, odds are you’re wasting your time. You should probably just head home.”

If you’ve ever read Jim Camp’s Start With No, you might recognize this as a “negative stripline.”

That’s when you’re in a negotiation, and your adversary is having doubts, concerns, or vague bad feelings.

At this point, according to Camp, the worst thing you can do is to paint a sunny and bright picture.

Instead, you want to be honest. Brutally honest.

“You’re probably right,” Camp would say to such an adversary. “This probably won’t work out. It’s probably best if we just cut off this negotiation right now and stop wasting your time.”

What happens when you do this?

Well, all I can say is what happened to me. I finally got to talking to some beautiful, intimidating women. Because the negative stripline works even when your negotiating adversary is yourself.

So if you’re not seeing real results from the power of positive thinking, whether in social situations, or in business…

Then try negative thinking.

And whatever you do, don’t let me know how it works out for you.

The Bugsy Siegel “take my gun” way to build vision

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I started watching Bugsy last night.

It’s a Barry Levinson movie starring Warren Beatty as Ben Siegel (don’t call him “Bugsy” unless you want a sock in the jaw).

Bugsy (all right, he’s dead) is a big-time mobster from New York who comes to Hollywood to expand his business.

And so he goes to meet a local crime boss (right across the street) and gives him two options. “Option one,” says Bugsy, “is you come to work for me. We take 75%, you get 25%, which has got to be worth at least three times what your 100% is worth now.”

“And option two?” asks the local crime boss.

Here Bugsy pulls out his gun. The whole room stands up on alert (Bugsy is alone, the local crooks are a dozen). “No, no, don’t worry,” Bugsy says amiably. “Here, take it.” And he shoves his gun into the local crime boss’s hands and points it at himself.

The local crime boss looks confused for a second. Finally, he says, “What, I gotta kill you?”

Bugsy again smiles and nods his head.

The negotiation concludes, and the Hollywood crime boss is now part of the Bugsy Siegel organization.

I thought this scene was a great illustration of how to build vision (a cornerstone of the Jim Camp school of sales and negotiation). The vision in this case is not that the local crime boss would have to commit a murder. The vision instead is that Bugsy (and his associates) are fearless, crazy, and will stop at nothing to get what they want.

I’ve found that the most effective ways to build vision are often this simple and surprising.

It’s something to keep in mind if you’re negotiating or trying to sell. And as I’ve written before (“The sink-or-swim sales close”), this kind of “take my gun” approach can work in building vision in copy as well. If you want to read about that, here’s the link to that ancient post:

https://bejakovic.com/sink-swim-sales-letter-close/

Ask a silly question, you get a dopey look

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A few weeks back, in a moment of weakness, I answered a question in an online copywriting forum.

In my answer, I mentioned negotiation coach Jim Camp, the guy who (among his other accomplishments) revamped the FBI’s negotiation strategy.

Now here’s the thing. Even though full access to Jim Camp’s methods and coaching (while he was alive) cost thousands of dollars in fees, the man also wrote a book called Start With No, which covers about 95% of his negotiation system and costs around $15.

Anyhow, all of this is just setup for what I want to talk about today. Because when I wrote up my response and when I mentioned Jim Camp, another commenter slid in with a new question:

“Where to study Jim Camp? Looking for his education pieces but everything is paid (and expensive). I’m aware of Start With No.”

If this guy were sitting in front of me when he asked this question, I think I’d have to scrunch up my eyebrows, smile a dopey smile, and shrug my shoulders.“I know, buddy. It’s tough.” After all, what else could I tell him?

I bring this up because top direct-response copywriter Roy Furr just shared a very simple, very effective method of getting work with premier copywriting clients.

This method is something I’ve done in the past. It has been responsible for some of the longest-running and most profitable client relationships I’ve had to date.

It’s also something I’m going to start doing again, beginning this week. That’s because I want to pad out my schedule for the coming few months, and increase my rates once again.

And here’s how this ties into studying Jim Camp:

Roy says wannabe copywriters often ask how they can get clients…

And then when they get a valuable, proven suggestion, they do nothing with the information.

Instead, they spin on their heels, face forward once again, and ask, “But how can I land a copywriting client?”

To which the only response can be a dopey look.

Anyways, I’m sure that’s not how you operate.

So in case you want to read Roy’s advice so you can apply it in your copywriting business, here’s where to start:

https://www.breakthroughmarketingsecrets.com/blog/i-was-right-did-you-listen/

You’re okay, I’m about to stew in Old Bay

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I got myself in a bit of a pickle today.

That’s because yesterday, I wrote about smart and effective ways that marketers can use reciprocity to get their prospects’ trust.

I didn’t spell out what those ways were, so I invited people to write in if they wanted to know what I had in mind.

And a few people did exactly that.

Only one problem.

While I had vague ideas of effective reciprocity that I’ve seen in marketing, I hadn’t really thought deeply about this issue.

And I certainly didn’t have a list of such strategies prepared and ready to share.

This was weighing on me earlier today.

I was starting to get more nervous than a crab next to a pot of boiling water and a can of Old Bay Seasoning.

So to take my mind off this troubling situation, I put on a lesson from a course by negotiation expert Jim Camp.

This lesson talked about one of the pillars of Jim Camp’s negotiation philosophy:

The idea that everybody wants to “be okay.”

This means feeling comfortable.

And the main way we humans do this is by being a little more okay than the other person.

So if you want to make people feel okay, you can do so by being “unokay” — by revealing your mistakes, uncertainties, or foibles.

Once you trust your adversaries — or prospects — in this way, they will begin to let their guard down…

Start to trust you a little more in turn…

And look for ways to help you out.

This is powerful stuff. And in my experience, it works very well.

Unfortunately, it’s also something I have to constantly remind myself of.

Because my first instinct is to try to impress everyone with my smarts, my preparedness, or my skills.

Anyways, perhaps you can see where I’m going with this. And maybe you will get some use out of it.

For now, if you want to get some copy written, and you’re not too bothered by my occasional unpreparedness, then write me an email and we can talk.

Dirty deeds done at premium, non-negotiable rates

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Here’s a little story to warm you up:

“There are two bums sitting on a park bench. They had just woken up from a long night’s winter sleep covered up with newspapers. And the one bum had found a butt of a cigar on the ground. As he was lighting it, he said, ‘You know Bill, one good thing they can say about us is we always have the lowest price in town.'”

This story comes from Jim Camp, one of the world’s most influential philosophers of negotiation.

So what’s Camp’s point?

Well, let me tell you using Camp’s own words. First, here’s Camp’s thinking when he’s on the buying side:

“If you want people to be responsible, all you have to do is pay their asking price. Once you begin to cut their price or drive their price down, if there’s any glitches of failures, it’s your fault. [The other side can just say,] “I’m finding out I can’t deliver what I thought I could.'”

Maybe you’re not impressed with Camp’s unwillingness to haggle. In that case, prepare to be shocked, because Camp is unwilling to haggle in either direction. Here are his thoughts when he’s on the selling side:

“I have a price when I’m selling, and my price is never compromised. […] Everything I deliver is personal service. And if I discount that, I don’t like myself. I don’t feel good about what I’m doing. If I don’t like myself and what I’m doing then I’m not going to perform to my highest level of capability.”

So is Jim Camp right? Or wrong?

I think it’s really a question of what kind of business you want to run, and what kinds of people you want to deal with.

I personally don’t like haggling, and I don’t like working with people who do.

That’s why my attitude from the start of my copywriting career has never been, “Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.”

Instead, it’s been, “Dirty deeds, done at premium, non-negotiable rates.”

Of course, I’ve had to improve my skills along the way in order to justify my ever-increasing rates. The surprising thing is, the more I charge, the more value I wind up delivering to clients.

Just something to think about when you’re thinking of discounting your own prices.

And here’s something else to think about:

I’m generally fully booked up with client work these days, because I have 3 clients with ongoing projects and never-ending need for copy.

In other words, I’m not hungry for more client work.

But I also want to keep in touch with potential new clients. So I’ve set aside two one-hour slots each month to talk to clients, share whatever advice I can, and see if it makes sense for us to work together.

I haven’t yet automated this whole process, but if you’re interested in taking me up on one of these two slots for the month of April, you can get started by taking me up on the following offer:

https://bejakovic.com/profitable-health-emails/

How to sell lousy rotten garbage

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“HOT”

That’s the headline of a famous ad written by Joe Sugarman some time back in the 1970’s.

The ad was for a membership program called Consumers Hero — basically a mail-order catalogue of refurbished goods such as clock radios and digital watches.

Sugarman used the “HOT” concept to suck people in — the idea was that this stuff was so cheap that it was basically like stealing from the manufacturers.

And that’s not the only clever idea in this piece of copy.

For example, there’s also how old Joe addressed an objection that the reader was sure to have earlier on. The objection being:

“Sure, the refurbished clock radio might be cheap, but isn’t it junk?”

To which Joe says, of course it is!

In fact, as Joe walks you through Consumers Hero and its service, he uses the phrase “lousy rotten” six times to describe their merchandise. At one point, he even refers to it as “garbage.”

This is something that famed negotiation coach Jim Camp used to call the “negative stripline.””

In effect, it’s when you take a more negative position that the person you’re negotiating with (or selling to).

This disarms much of your adversary’s negativity.

And it can even cause him to try to bring you to a more neutral position.

“Lousy rotten garbage? It can’t be that bad! Tell me more about it, and I’ll see if I want one.”

And of course, Joe does tell you. All about how the money and care that goes into refurbishing the lousy rotten clock radio, into testing it, and in making sure that you’re perfectly satisfied when you get it and use, including a five-year warranty.

So what’s the point?

If your prospects are sure to have an objection, don’t shy away from it.

Beat them to it.

And even make a joke out of it.

And then, end on a less negative note. Such as:

If you have lousy rotten garbage on your hands (just kidding!) and you’re trying to offload it onto your customers, you might like the email marketing lessons found here:

https://bejakovic.com/profitable-health-emails/

Man brutally accuses woman of wearing 1980’s outfit

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One time, I was walking down the street when I saw a pretty girl.

I ran up to her, and I said, “Hello. I wanted to tell you that you look very nice.”

The girl looked at me coldly and said, “Thank you.” She seemed suspicious and ready to move on right away.

So what to do? How to keep the conversation going for a bit? Should I ask her where’s she’s from? Or what she does for a living? Or what her plans are for the rest of the day?

Nope.

I think all those things would have made the girl more defensive still, and would have sent her packing as soon as she gave me a curt answer.

So instead, I took a different tack and I said:

“I’ll tell you what I noticed about you. I thought you looked very elegant on top” — here I gestured with my open hand from the girl’s head down across her body — “like you work in a fancy law office. But there’s one thing that doesn’t seem to match.”

The girl’s eyes opened wide at this point. I continued:

“It’s these big white sneakers you’re wearing. They give you a 1980’s, Melanie Griffith, Working Girl kind of look.”

The girl started laughing — and she started to talk. No, it’s not a 1980’s look. She has an extra pair of flats in her bag, just it’s so cold outside so she changed into sneakers. And it’s not a law office where she works, but a graphic design studio.

Now that’s something I can work with. But why do I bring this story up?

Well, for the past 4 days, I’ve been talking about alternatives to asking crappy, yes-seeking questions. One of these alternatives was to ask open-ended questions, in the style of negotiation expert Jim Camp.

The thing is, there are situations where the other side is so cold that asking them any kind of question doesn’t work. It doesn’t get you any kind of useful information. It doesn’t get them engaged. And very likely, it kills the interaction.

So what’s the alternative?

Well, it’s to take the advice of pick up artists such as Wayne Elise AKA Juggler — and do what I did in the story above. Simply call out what you see. In other words, make assumptions and verbalize them.

The magical thing is, you don’t need to be right.

Of course, if you’re on a sales call rather than talking to a girl on the street, you don’t want to seem frivolous. But even if you make an assumption that turns out to be incorrect, odds are good that your adversary will jump in to correct you — which is a big step forward, because now you have something to work with.

Anyways, this is the fourth and final alternative I have to asking yes-seeking questions. Tomorrow I’ll be back to more traditional copywriting and marketing topics.

For now, if you want my thoughts on how to apply assumptions to email marketing, specifically for the health space, check out my upcoming book:

https://bejakovic.com/profitable-health-emails/