Dale Carnegie

How to win an argument by not really trying

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About 20 years ago, when I first read Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People, I came across a clever aphorism.

“You cannot win an argument,” wrote Carnegie.

That’s stuck with me ever since, even though it goes against my argumentative nature. The fact is, I like to debate and argue and show people how I’m right and how they aren’t. Except, like Carnegie says, you cannot really win. You cannot argue people over to your way of thinking. And even if you do get them to admit that you’re right and they’re wrong, you’ve gained nothing except their hatred.

So most of the time, when I find I’m about to let the debating crow out of its cage, I bite my tongue and I stuff the ugly black bird back where it belongs. I smile. I nod. And I think to myself, “Boy, how wrong you are. But you won’t hear it from me.”

This is an improvement over losing friends and alienating people. But it’s hardly a creative and productive way to deal with new ideas.

There’s gotta be something better, right? Of course. It’s just that I wasn’t clever enough to think of it myself. But I came across this better way to win arguments a couple of days ago, in an interview with billionaire investor Howard Marks.

Marks was asked what early advice helped him become so successful. He said there wasn’t any investing advice that did it. Instead, it was just an attitude, and he’s not sure where he picked it up. He illustrated it by describing how he deals with his longtime business partner:

“Each of us is open to the other’s ideas. When we have an intellectual discussion, neither of us puts a great emphasis on winning. We want to get to the right answer. We have enormous respect for each other, which I think is the key. When he says something, a position different from mine, my first reaction is not, ‘How can I diffuse that? How can I beat that? How can I prove he’s wrong?’ My first reaction is to say, ‘Hey, what can I get from that? What can I take away? Is he right? Maybe he’s right and I was wrong.’ […] I’m a big believer in intellectual humility, which means saying 1) I could be wrong, 2) he could be right.”

I don’t know, Howard. Is this really winning? Of course, I’m all for intellectual humility. But I don’t think it requires saying I could be wrong. And now let me show you some reasons why.

How to write copy and influence people

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I recently read a personal story about Andrew Carnegie, one of the richest Americans of all time.

Carnegie had a couple of nephews who studied at Yale University.

These guys never wrote their mother, and they paid no attention to their mother’s frantic letters asking them if they are ok.

Andrew Carnegie wagered a hundred dollars he could get an answer from his nephews by return mail — without even asking for it.

So he wrote them a chatty letter.

In the postscript, he mentioned casually he was sending each of them a five-dollar bill.

But he neglected to enclose the money.

Sure enough, replies came from the two nephews, thanking uncle Andrew for his letter, and letting him know him he forgot to send them the money he mentioned.

By the way, I read this story in a book written by another Carnegie.

That’s Dale Carnegie, in his book How to Win Friends and Influence People.

And I think this story does a good job illustrating the fundamental principle behind the whole How to Win Friends book. I believe this principle is also the fundamental rule of copywriting — the first thing I would tell anybody who is looking to write sales copy, whether for their own business or for a client.

I won’t spell this rule out for you here.

But if you want to see how you can put it into action when writing your own copy — specifically your own sales emails — then check out hte following:

https://bejakovic.com/profitable-health-emails/

How to hire a copywriter without falling into a trance

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“So if you aspire to be a good conversationalist, be an attentive listener. To be interesting, be interested. Ask questions that other persons will enjoy answering. Encourage them to talk about themselves and their accomplishments.”
— Dale Carnegie

Earlier this year, I wrote a book about how to succeed as a copywriter on Upwork.

And in my opinion, one of the most valuable tips in that book was how to handle interviews with potential clients.

​​When a client starts off an interview by asking me why they should hire me, I usually respond with something like:

“I’d definitely like to answer that for you. But I want to make sure I’m speaking to the things you care about. So can you first tell me what’s most important for you on this project?”

5 out of 6 times, this puts clients into a trance state.

They start talking…

And they keep talking…

And 20 minutes of talking later, without knowing anything about me, they will often say:

“John, it really sounds like you might be perfect for this job. When could you start?”

This is great for me. But what about the clients? Are they really making smart decisions in this half-drunken trance state?

I got to thinking about this today when I saw a question on Facebook from a guy named Dave. Dave asks:

“What is the best way to hire a freelance copywriter? What kind of questions should I be asking?”

One of the people in the comments responded by saying that clients should NOT ask questions — instead they should evaluate the copywriter based on how well he asks questions.

Like I said, I don’t think this is enough. Asking good questions — while it is an important sales skill — is not the the same thing as writing effective sales copy.

So I think clients should take a page out of Dale Carnegie’s book.

Yes, allow the copywriter to ask you questions, and see whether he understands your particular situation and goals.

But at that point, get genuinely interested in the copywriter. And ask your own questions to see if this is a person you would like to work with. Questions such as:

What’s your process for writing copy?
How do you do research?
What are you looking for when you do research?
What kinds of clients do you like to work with?
What similar projects have you worked on?
What kind of results can we expect?
What do you need from me?

I can’t give you specific right answers to look for here.

But I think asking these questions will help you figure out if this copywriter is experienced, competent, and trustworthy.

And if you want to ask me those questions — after you’ve told me all about yourself — then get in touch with me and we can find a time to talk.