Interviewing

Flamboyant, famously homosexual football club chairman

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A few months ago, a friend turned me on to a new addiction:

BBC Archive.

Sounds… archival, I know, and as exciting as a dusty library.

But the BBC Archive can be a fascinating look into a completely different time and often into places that have now fully disappeared.

For example, today I watched a BBC report from 1979, asking the question, does English football need investment?

Was a time when football (soccer) wasn’t much of a business. Back then, a couple English First Division team owners had audacious ideas such as expanding the number of seats in their stadiums past the 10k mark, or maybe even introducing functioning toilets.

The BBC interviewed a couple of these team owners and execs, including the director of Watford FC, a guy named Elton John.

“Haha,” I thought. “What a coincidence. This football club bro has the same name as the flamboyant, famously homosexual rock and roll star.”

Except, of course, it turned out that the football club bro was actually the flamboyant, famously homosexual rock and roll star.

Elton John has been a diehard supporter of Watford FC since he was a kid.

​​After he became rich and famous, he bought his way into the club. He acted as their chairman and director between 1976 and 1987, and then again from 1997 to 2002.

It’s only in my limited, stereotyping mind that it’s incongruent for a football club chairman and a flamboyant, famously homosexual rock and roll star to be one and the same person.

Maybe you’re nothing like me.

Or maybe you’re a bit like me.

In that case, let me share something that’s really been working for me to get a fascinating change of perspective from the usual.

Over the past few weeks, I’ve gotten on Zoom calls with a half dozen or so people who have bought my courses.

I wanted to find out a bit about who they are.

Oh, sure, I knew all about them already, everything I needed to know. I knew they were interested in copywriting, marketing, and my charming and funny personality.

What else is there to possibly know?

Turns out, a huge amount, measured in tons. I won’t list everything I learned here. But let me just say much of it has been as surprising and frankly eye-opening as seeing a 1970s Elton John discussing the plight of football fans who don’t have access to clean toilets.

I’ve also gotten lots of ideas for new offers by talking to my customers over the past few weeks.

​​Not just via ideas that popped up in my mind while I was listening to people talking. No, the people I talked to gave me specific recommendations and said, “Here, this is what I like to buy.”

So if you’re racking your brains about your next offer, might be time to invest in walking around the virtual bleachers, and talking to a few of the people who are sitting there on Friday nights.

I’ll be applying some of these ideas soon. Meanwhile, I just have a few archival offers, including the best thing I sell, a flamboyant program known as Copy Riddles. For more info on that:

https://bejakovic.com/cr/

“How do you know?”

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Over the past five or so years, I’ve noticed that I:

1. Am listening to the same music, mostly stuff I’ve listened to for decades

2. No longer enjoy going to restaurants

3. Prefer really simple food, prepared simply

4. (If I watch anything at all) watch TV shows I already know, like Arrested Development or Twin Peaks

5. Watch movies that were made up to the year 2000 but not beyond

6. Am no longer interested in traveling

7. Am in particular not interested in traveling to poor places where I can’t have the comforts I’m already used to at home

8. Have a very routinized life — work, gym, reading, walk

9. Am getting more politically conservative

10. Feel I have an explanation for everything — just ask me.

I’m telling you these 10 highly personal things to illustrate a valuable marketing and copywriting tip:

People in your market will often describe their situation with a statement like, “I am getting closed-minded.” I know I’ve been saying this lately as I’ve noticed myself getting older.

Trouble is, “getting closed-minded” is abstract. It’s fuzzy. It can mean lots of different things to different people.

And even to people who might actually agree such a statement describes them, it doesn’t really spark a very strong emotional self-identification.

The fix for this are four simple words:

“How do you know?”

Ask your market these four words.

These four words get to the specifics, the scenes people can truly see, hear, and touch.

​​This leads to emails and sales copy that hypnotize people.

​​And if you want to know why that is, just write in and ask. I have an explanation for it — and for everything else you might ever want to know.

Outrage with stupidity to milk info out of cagey or indifferent adversaries

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Two years ago, just as the whole world was shutting down due to the first wave of corona, the president of the UFC, Dana White, got trolled into revealing a highly guarded secret.

A bit of background:

The UFC hosts mixed martial arts fights, and in April 2020 they were supposed to host the biggest and most anticipated fight in their history, between Khabib Nurmagomedov and Tony Ferguson.

These two fighters were both on 12-fight win streaks in the UFC, and they were scheduled to fight four times already. Each time, the fight was cancelled at the last minute for some reason.

This time around, as sports organizations around the world cancelled events because of corona, Dana White refused to give in. “We’re going ahead with the fight!”

The only problem was they couldn’t figure out where to host it. It was originally supposed to be in Brooklyn, but that was out. In fact, any other location in the US also became untenable.

“The fight is still on, guys!” White would repeat whenever asked, though he wouldn’t give any more details.

So as the fight date neared, speculation kept increasing. Fans were alternating between getting resigned to the inevitable fifth cancellation… and hyped when some new possible location for the fight surfaced.

Meanwhile, even Tony and Khabib, the fighters who were supposed to be fighting, didn’t know for sure if the fight was still on.

So that’s the background. Would the fight happen? Would it get cancelled a fifth time?

The answer finally came when somebody created a fake Twitter account, mimicking a well-known MMA journalist, and tweeted:

“#BREAKING: Dana White and Vladimir Putin have reached an agreement on travel arrangements for UFC Lightweight Champion Khabib Nurmagomedov to come to the United States. He will fight Tony Ferguson. It’s happening folks. #UFC249 will go on as scheduled April 18.”

To which Dana White, big goof that he is, immediately blasted out a Tweet saying that it ain’t so, that Khabib is not fighting, and then to prove it, he finally revealed the whole card that was scheduled for this corona-infested bout.

Which brings us to an eternal truth, something called Cunningham’s law:

“The best way to get the right answer on the Internet is not to ask a question; it’s to post the wrong answer.”

The sad fact is that in business, in love, and on online forums, there are many times when people are unwilling to answer your questions. Maybe the person you’re talking to is indifferent, or cagey, or hurt, or they just don’t like the implied power dynamics that come with you asking and them answering.

So if you ever find yourself in this situation, swallow your pride, and publicly make a dumb, completely wrong assumption about the right answer. If Cunningham is right, and I suspect he’s at least a little bit right, then your outraged adversary will jump in and say, “No! You’re so wrong! Let me tell you how it really is…”

But I think this Cunningham and his law go even farther. If you just swap out “right answer” and you swap in “response,” you get a good recipe for how to get yourself publicity and an audience online.

Of course, unless you want to be just a troll, you’ll have to figure out a reasonable argument to justify a seemingly “wrong” opinion that you use to attract attention. But it can be done, and guys like Matt Stone (aka Buck Flogging) and Ben Settle prove it. Outrage and reason are a powerful combination. Aloe vera on its own is pretty bland and slimy, but it sure feels good once you burn your hand on the stove.

And if you want less outrage, not more:

You might like my daily email un-newsletter. I avoid outrage, even though I know it’s good for business. Instead, I try to make my ideas appealing in other ways. In case you’re curious, you can give it a try here.

The less you write, the better your copy gets

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“You’re very good at writing in this conversational tone.”

I was getting some copy critiqued by a more experienced copywriter.

“Yeah, this opening story is great,” he said.

Fact is, i didn’t write any of it.

It was a story I found online. I cut it down, rearranged it a bit for emphasis, made it more readable. But most of the words were somebody else’s.

That’s because one of my mantras is that I should write as little copy as possible. The less I write, the better the final result tends to be.

That doesn’t mean to make my sales letters short.

It does mean that most of my copy, particularly the crucial bits like the lead and any stories inside, are not my own invention.

Instead, I dig them up online…

Or, if I have the luxury, I get them straight from the mouth of the guru behind the product, during an interview.

And that’s what I want to share with you today.

Because most people won’t give you the drama and the stories, even if you ask them nicely. They simply don’t understand what you’re after, or what makes for a good story or for exciting copy.

​​That’s why it’s your job to reach down their throat and pull that out.

It took me a while to get decent at doing so. I still mess up often. But I now have a bunch of little techniques I use now that help.

Such as the 3+ technique of negotiation coach Jim Camp. Camp advised covering each main point of a negotiation — or an interview — at least three separate times, using slightly different cues.

“So tell me about the time you first discovered this…”

“Let’s go back to time you first discovered this… where were you when it happened?”

“So wait. When you discovered this… what did you do right after?”

And like I said, I have a bunch of other little tricks. I even wrote them up once in a post on how to be a magnetic listener. If you want to see this post, so you can write write less copy… get better results… and have people like you better (because who doesn’t like a good listener)… then here’s the link:

https://bejakovic.com/10-steps-to-becoming-a-magnetic-listener/